What if Game of Thrones, Season 5 was Good, Like Really Good? Part 1: King’s Landing, Braavos and Castle Black

Game of Thrones Season 5 is the most controversial season of the show so far. Many factors went into this. Whether it was the show perhaps passing the books in some storylines, the show’s deviation from the source material or the way that the show adapted scenes from the books, fans had mixed reactions to the season. In this podcast episode, we delve into Season 5. But instead of simply hating on the show, we talk about the parts of the season that we liked. And we liked some of it quite a lot. But there was some that we didn’t like.

In this 1st of 2 parts, we talk about 3 locations, the 3 locations that we thought had the best plot-points from Season 5:

  • King’s Landing: Cersei & the Tyrells, the Faith Militant, Tommen and Qyburn
  • Braavos: The Faceless Men, the House of Black and White, Meryn Trant and Mace Tyrell
  • Castle Black: Jon & Stannis, Samwell, Jon’s Election, Jon as the Lord Commander of he Night’s Watch, Hardhome, “For the Watch”

We also mentioned the 2016 ASOIAF calendar during our intro which can be purchased here!

So, listen to us here or at the following spots:

Thanks so much for listening, and let us know what you think! Were our criticisms fair, accurate? Did our changes make sense? What changes might you make?

Final note: We’re coming up to our 10th(!!!) episode, and we all thought it might be fun if in our 10th episode, we answered any questions or addressed any theories that you all might have for us on the blog. So, if you have questions about ASOIAF (or really anything, within some reason) or a theory that you’d like to get our opinion on, leave a comment below to this post or send us an e mail at warsandpoliticsoficeandfire@gmail.com, and we’ll answer or discuss anything you all want to hear analyzed or discussed!

I invite you to follow us on twitter, facebook, tumblr or itunes to stay up-to-date with every last thing that we are getting into!


Filed under ASOIAF Podcast

15 responses to “What if Game of Thrones, Season 5 was Good, Like Really Good? Part 1: King’s Landing, Braavos and Castle Black

  1. Sir Theodred of Pennytree

    Nice callback to belated media XD

  2. This is how I always imagined it would loo like. An interplay of two sequences – Tower of Joy and Jon’s resurrection. Thematically speaking, his birth and re-birth.

  3. Greetings! I’m a fairly new reader of the blog. Forgive me if these items have been discussed before, but a quick search doesn’t turn up much. I have two items for submission that could be fun to discuss on the tenth episode:

    1) What do you think about the idea that Rhaegar is not the son of Aerys II? This theory has the potential to help answer greater questions like, “What really happened a the Tower of Joy?” and, “What were Rhaegar’s true intentions during Robert’s Rebellion?” I have outlined my case for the theory here: Rhaegar the Dragonfly

    2) I’m sure you’ve heard of the Mance Rhaegar Theory. You’ve probably dismissed it, as most have done. However, I submit for your consideration my compilation of rebuttals to the most common objections to this theory.

    I know some of you do not think very highly of Rhaegar. Why, then, do most of the characters in the tale not feel the same? Especially Ned, who took secrets about Rhaegar to his grave? This is an indicator that perhaps there is more to the story that would cause us to view his character in a different light.

    Looking forward to your opinions!

  4. athelas6

    Congratulations on your upcoming 10th episode. I have also listened to you on Radio Westeros. I really enjoy your insights. I’ll be listening to this episode on Season 5 soon. This may sound silly, but I am in a re-read of ASoS, and in Jaime’s POV where he, Brienne, and Ser Cleos are at the Inn of the Kneeling Man. Brienne buys the three horses they have there. Jaime is given the “ancient white gelding blind in one eye” to ride. My question is do you think this “one-eyed” horse may indicate Bloodraven’s influence somehow? I’m familiar with the discussions I’ve read about Jaime being influenced in his arc’s transformation from when he sleeps and dreams with his head on a weirwood stump, but I haven’t heard or read anything about him and this horse. Maybe it’s nothing but a weak physical description link I’ve picked up on this read. Still, if it merits an answer I’d love to hear it. Thank you so much for all of your hard work and sharing your excellent ideas.

  5. Good job guys. However, i have to disagree on some of your points.

    There is now way to stretch Feast Dance into two seasons. All big moments: Daznak’s Pit, For The Watch, Walk of Shame, Theon’s Jump – happened in the end of ADWD. So if you don’t go to the end of published material, the season will be lacking every single big moment.

    And by the way, most viewers this this season was SLOW. You guys are saying it was too fast and want to make it even slower? It took 7 episodes to come from setting the story to starting paying it off!

    Also, you gave The Wall to much shit. You want too much within one season. Election for few episodes, Jon’s help to Stannis, more of Jon’s interference wth the realm, etc… There is no room for all of this. There is one season, 10 episodes.

    Jon’s storyline in season 5 is great. This is by far the best season for the Wall, best season for Jon, best season for Kit. There is the election showing that Jon isnt loved and supported by everybody, great Stannis stuff, Jon and Stannis & Jon and Sam relationship, Hardhome and consequences. You just can’t have more.

    Yes, some of themes that were in the books are lost, but that’s ok.
    Here is what i would of changed:

    Let’s not be so heavy handed with Olly. There is no need to foreshadow him stabbing Jon in every scene. Instead lead to it being Alisser… But then made Alisser the one who will try to stop assassination. The show made him really likable in season 4, so that’s in line with his character. Also, that’s a great twist. The guy who is seen as Jon’s enemy dies trying to protect him and his own squire, the boy who he saved, betrays him. Also, i think it would be more fitting if Olly’s involment wasn’t stabbing Jon, but him not giving Jon his sword (since he is a squire) and just watching him die.
    And as much as i love epic Benjen trolling, if you have a giant at the wall you should use him in Jon’s final scene.

    Regarding the pink letter… There is one big problem. Hardhome. It’s hard to imagine Jon doing what he does at the end of ADWD if right before this he saw what happens in Hardhome.

    However, there may be a way to do pink letter story in the show, Letter comes, Stannis is dead. Jon is going south. But let’s shift priorites. He is not going mainly because of Sansa (there is not much love lost between this two anyway). The point Jon makes is that the only king who cared about the Wall is dead and Boltons are going to destroy the nights watch. So Jon will go south and try to bring North on his side (the importance of his Stark name is established earlier) and defeat the Boltons, but he is doing it for the watch (no pun intended) first and foremost.

    You can argue that this is yet another whitewashing of characte, but i think this is the way to do it in the context of the show. And in my mind, it makes more sense than his plan in ADWD. How did he planned to defeat Boltons with the help of badly trained and armed wildings who are hated by every single northerner – i have no idea.

    So after Jon says his plan there is awkward silence and whispers in the room. Jon goes in his chambers and we cut away to another storyline. The final scene happens the same way it goes in the books, except there is more of the fighting between brothers. When Jonis attacked some of the men try to protect him. Alisser included. He dies, which gives him a great storyline. He came from being asshole number 1 to loyal warrior who dies to save lord commander. And then Jon gets stabbed a lot. The end.

  6. garbad

    Hey BBF, I love your content but usually can’t listen (at work, no sound). If possible, can we get transcripts of your talks? Thanks.

  7. pluttor

    I’d just like to point out in regards to Nina’s point about Loras being inspired by the white book: while that would be a great alternative to what we got, Loras in the show is not a Kingsguard

    • nfriel

      Aha! My mistake. I always forget they made Loras the heir to Highgarden on the show (can you tell I disagree with the choice?). Good eye (or ear?) to point that out.

      • pluttor

        Thanks. I never liked the change either.

        Big fan by the way; love your work 🙂

        When can we expect part 2?

  8. DanLiberta

    Huh. So, I kinda went into this podcast expecting essentially a scene by scene revision so to speak. A “if we were adapting this, here’s how we’d do it”, which sounded pretty fun. There was a bit of that, and I imagine we’ll get more of that in the next episode (for Dorne, if nothing else). Instead the rhetoric trended more as a big critique of the show rather than looking to improve it, and much of the things talked about had to do with things that were left out from the books. I mean, you definitely had some valid points and ideas. Meryn Trant was certainly overdone in Braavos. I liked the point about how, in the books, there was the big camp of sparrows at Baelor’s sept, and not including that was certainly a big missed opportunity that I don’t think I’ve seen anybody else bring up. And of course Loras is overly defined by his sexuality.

    But then there’s things like Jon’s oathbreaking. See, not including his oathbreaking with Stannis definitely cuts out a very important piece of his character arc in ADWD. Nobody who’s read Feldman’s work can deny that, and I think Jon Show is weaker for it. But what I wanna know is, how do you squeeze that in and do it justice? Jon had 53 minutes of screentime in Season Five (according to the westeros.org thread I googled), roughly the length of one episode, and 20 of those minutes were Hardhome. So I was expecting the big point to be less of “well this is why the show is worse for not including this critical piece of story”, and more “here’s exactly how the show could’ve better used those fifty three minutes to make a better show including this critical piece of story”. I think that would’ve made a far more interesting podcast than two hours of what amounted to a generally well spoken retread over common book reader criticisms.

    Aside from that, some of the audio could use work. Nina and Jeff sound fine as usual, and while I think this is the clearest I’ve heard Hamish so far, Jim’s fallen off a bit. Hopefully things work better this time (also cut out the sirens next time?).

    Final note is for Nina to reign in her rants a bit. Mostly just a matter of not overly belaboring the point and rambling less (which I know is tough because I do it all the damn time, and the fact that next episode is the Sansa one probably won’t help).

    Generally critical tone of this post aside, I do like your stuff and am looking forward to future episodes.

  9. So I’m sure with the questions we’re going to get into some of the big and oft debated questions (like lemon trees and Daario’s secret identity) so here are some smaller questions.

    1. Do you think the story we got about what happened to Domeric is legit or did something else happen?

    2. Who organized the Riot of King’s Landing?

    3. Any character you suspect might secretly be bastards (or just a more complicated ancestry)? Doesn’t necessarily mean secret Targaryens as we’ve heard enough of that.

    4. Favorite coat of arms? Favorite house words?

    5. Where in the wide world of A Song of Ice and Fire do you think you’d most enjoy the food?

    6. Which otherwise minor character do you think will become important in the next two books?

  10. This episode hasn’t shown up on my podcasts app (default Apple one), along with many others (just got part 2). Is it my settings at fault? Or are they not all available?
    Thanks for all your great work, love it!

  11. Pingback: Sex, Power, and Daenerys Targaryen: The New Cultural Template for the Sexually Dominant Woman | Something Something Ice & Fire, Whatever

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